entangledbank: ot, no w?

- (

entangledbank) wrote,
@ 2004-08-18 21:14:00

Current music:

Henze, Symphony No. 10

ot, no w?
Am I the last person in the world, or in this part of it, to pronounce a [w] in 'quarter', 'quartet', 'quartz'? Cos I heard a Radio 3 announcer say [kɔ:'tet] just now, and I'm sure I keep hearing them say ['kɔ:tə] too. And the thing is, I believe I used to, when I was very young and prescriptivist, and corrected myself to ['kwɔ:tə], which is now ingrained in me. My 1993 Chambers just gives kwör'tər, no alternative, so it's sneaked (or snuck: which do I say?) up on us. But do all the best people say it w-less now? Cos if so I should do cos I'm dead posh, me.

(sings:) What do the simple folk do? Is it ['koɵʔɐ] or ['kwoɵʔɐ]? (spoken:) So they say.

And that vowel. Everyone, but everyone, up my local is called George, so I'm constantly hearing cries of what I've finally decided is [dʒoɵdʒ], i.e. a centring diphthong rounded throughout. It sounds like a consonantal [w]: but if I start with a closing diphthong [dʒoʊdʒ] and push the offglide higher, it's not right, it's too rounded and RP. Then I hit on the centring solution, and it seems about right when I try it.

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anjuutsu
2004-08-18 01:45 pm UTC (link)

I usually say "korter" instead of "kwarter" myself (sorry, don't have IPA font on this computer), as do most of my friends. I don't know if this is more typical of Americans or not, but I've found that most young people I know say "korter." My father, however, still says "kwarter" (but he also pronounces the "h" in "white"). Perhaps the older generation in the States is more likely to preserve the "w" in "quarter" and such.

*side note: I really like how English people say "should do." I've never heard an American say "should do," they just say "should."

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entangledbank
2004-08-18 03:27 pm UTC (link)

*side note: Funny thing that 'should do'. I noticed I'd written it, and thought hang on, did I mean 'should too' and it's just age and alcohol jiggling about with sounds? So I actually had to think about it. Do I say 'should do' in such a place? And I decided yes, it can stay, but it does have a real ring of Englishness (i.e. in this context old-fashionedness) to it.

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	ex_greythist387 2004-09-01 09:06 am UTC (link)
	My visiting Irishman says "should do," too, and his American gf has picked it up. (Yeah, I said on my lj that he spent early years in London, but they tell me it's valid in Irish English as well.) My "quarter" has the w in it. Not one of the things I've "corrected" on purpose. First reaction was "people don't have the w?" but I have heard it without. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	firynze 2004-08-18 02:02 pm UTC (link)
	Hmm. I can't even quite make myself pronounce those words w-less. My mind and vocal apparatus just don't work that way. Damn me and my funny accent. (Reply to this)

q_pheevr
2004-08-18 02:41 pm UTC (link)

I didn't know this was happening on both sides of the Atlantic. I've certainly encountered many Americans who buy their milk by the court, and I suspect the /w/ is endangered here in Canada as well, though of course Canadians buy their milk by the leader.

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	entangledbank 2004-08-18 03:32 pm UTC (link)
	Weird how quite specific changes like this happen rapidly everywhere in the English-speaking world. Nul points to the tree model. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	isolt 2004-08-18 09:04 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know where all these /w/less people are, as I've not heard this with any frequency. /w/ certainly doesn't seem to be endangered in southeastern Michigan. (Reply to this)

tungol
2004-08-27 12:19 am UTC (link)

Hi, I'm a random commenter. (Well, not totally random... I found your livejournal through linguistics connections, and I'm a linguistics student)

I think that I've heard pronunciations of words like 'quarter' both with and without [w] in British Columbia, Canada, where I'm from. I've also noticed pronunciations of 'Quebec' ranging between [kw@bEk] and [koubEk] - I think I tend towards the latter, but when I stop to think about it I'm never quite sure.

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